Cylindrical Pano Problem

[Ewart]

I have several cylindrical panoramas that I need to display in Flash.
My most extreme case has an aspect ratio of 13:1

So far, the only way I have found to display this image in FPP is:
1. Convert the 13:1 image to cube faces using DOSUP
2. Set 'zoomin', 'tiltmax' / 'tiltmin' parameters in FPP .xml to limit the FOV and TILT (using the borders plugin)

PROBLEM: The image itself comprises only a tiny area on the cube faces, so I need to have HUGE (at least 1500x1500px) cube faces to get any kind of detail in the image part. This in turn leads to a 400K combined size for the faces - just too big for loading over slow connections. The faces are already compressed to a point where it is starting to seriously hurt the image quality.

a. Is there another technique to display cylindrical panos that I am missing?
b. I'm already aware that this issue may be addressed in v2.2 but will not be able to wait for v2.2.
c. If FPP cannot do what I need, can anyone recommend a similar FLASH pano viewer that I can buy instead?

Thanks a lot.

[cheathamlane]

Hey Ewart --

If you can't wait for v2.2, and 400kb total is too much, you may be SOL...

You might look at an alternate program such as CubicConverter or Pano2VR to perform your cyl-to-equi-to-cube conversion; it is possible you could find an acceptable median.

Obviously your needs will dictate your file size, but I personally head towards individual cube faces which clock in around 400K. :)

[Mjon]

Denis,

Can you confirm whether their is a release 2.2 in the pipeline and if so does it have native support for cylindrical projections?

I use a mix of spherical and cylindrical projections in my work and want to use your player throughout my site however the need to use oversized cube faces is excessive for my needs.

I have over 150 cylindricals and cannot stomach the idea of using a 'hacked' and overly heavy bandwidth solution only to find that you were just about to release the solution to this problem.

Thanks and by the way great product, just please add cylindricals, I am sure this will convert many more developers to your player.

Jon

[zleifr]

At 13:1 you probably have neglible distortion, so you probably could go with a flash "panorama viewer" that doesn't undistort the image.

Try one of these:

http://flashden.net/search?term=panoramic

The panoramic viewer 1 by bobocell is quite nice....

[Mjon]

What I and others need is a cylindrical projection in this player not use another.

I don't want to live with two separate VR players on my site, with different API's and methods, I just want to to call a pano file regardless of whether it is a cylinder or a sphere and configure with XML.

This player is the best for cubic why can't it also be the best for cylinders!

[cheathamlane]

I can almost agree with you that it would be nice to have FPP handle cylindrical panoramas "natively"... BUT, cubic panoramas are much more efficient to deliver, and are handled by every delivery mechanism I can think of offhand.

It's possible that serious panorama photographers should consider "upgrading" their approach to include rendering cubics (whether full cubic/spherical imagery, or cubic-cylinders with limited FOV parameters).

Just my 2 cents...

[zleifr]

Here is a possible solution for Ewart's specific cylindrical pano problem:

Make the six cube faces be black .gif squares the same size as now.

Crop the current four cube faces with the cylindrical pano down to just the are with the pano on it. (I believe there will still be a black bow shaped area centered on the top and bottom of each face).

Then use the cropped faces as distorting hotspots positioned appropriately around the panorama.

This way, the black blank gifs making the six cube faces can be very compressed (they contain no photographic info) and the cropped cube face hotspots can be much less compressed and not waste so much space.

zleifr

[Mjon]

Thanks zleifr,

that does sound workable, and certainly addresses my concerns about oversized images being a waste of bandwidth.

Anyone tried this?

I will have a go later in the week and let you know how I got on.

As for only using cube faces, I find that spherical images work best indoors or enclosed spaces and cylindricals capture landscapes better, I can't see why anyone would really need to look down at some grass or up at the sky when the real value of the image will be the horizon.

[cheathamlane]

Hey Mjon --

I understand where you're coming from -- but it's my understanding that, as far as delivery goes, cubics are more efficient. And (reference other post) being able to limit the tilt values of your panorama means you can still give the illusion of delivering a cylinder.

Likewise, I want to direct a viewer's attention to the most important aspects of a panoramic image; or, also, shoot & display a cylinder such that the most important bits are apparent. You're right, generally hte most important view is straight ahead rather than straight up or down -- but for many people viewing things interactively, the "wow" factor is in the ability to look up or down.

As with most everything, it depends on your approach and intent -- some documentary uses may require a full spherical view, while most artistic uses may not.

?

[Mjon]

Patrick,

I am sold on the using Cubic only for any new images, but still stuck with cylinders from a couple of years ago that are still usuable.

Had a look at your site and really impressed with your image quality, any chance you could share details of your hardware.

I am looking to upgrade my kit in the not to distant future and want to get that sort of quality. Currently I use a coolpix 5000 with a FC-E8 fisheye, this was OK for PTViewer in a 400 by 300px window but not good enough for full screen viewing.

I have manged to get my Cylinders working, but not using the hotspots method, I found that most of mine have a ration of around 6:1 and so this was not that bad for converting to cube faces after all.

Thanks for all your help!!:)