Sometimes...

[christophe]

Sometimes the forum is totally sleepy, quiet..... as if nobody have something to say !
It might mean a good thing, everybody is happy and all works well.

i don't like sunday.

[www.bodensee360.de]

The forum gets asleep as the product get asleep...or is it already dead ?

The only guy whos does something for the product is Tommy (thanks for that).

I begin to forget FPP because nothing really happes, no update, no new corrected tutorial, no useable GUI.

And i wont say anything about Denis blog, but...:mad:

There are products out there who are more promising....Pano2VR or Autopano Giga

[nidrig]

I begin to forget FPP because nothing really happes, no update, no new corrected tutorial, no useable GUI.

[..]

There are products out there who are more promising....Pano2VR or Autopano Giga

I mostly agree that fpp is silently dying, despites the hippcues here and there on the Google Group.

But I don't agree that there's no useble GUI. Trausti does an incredible job with Flashificator. And compared to Pano2VR and Autopano Giga, FFC is the most complete GUI, not to mention all the plugins coming with it.

As for the promising products:

- only FPP and Lucid Viewer support object distortion (projection) within the pano. Neither Pano2VR nor KRPano (which is the player used by Autopano Giga) allow projections.
- only FPP and Pano2VR (Lucid?) fully support flash 10 (aka take advantage of it). KRPano is still in a sort of beta status regarding flash 10.
- FPP is the player which has the more plugins available.

But like you, I'm longing for a significant update for fpp..

[www.bodensee360.de]

But I don't agree that there's no useble GUI. Trausti does an incredible job with Flashificator. And compared to Pano2VR and Autopano Giga, FFC is the most complete GUI, not to mention all the plugins coming with it.

--> ok. it is quite complete, but very hard to use.
i lost the patience before (!) the save function was added and coded manually.

I understand that planning & coding such a project is hard....so i dont want to say nothing against the team.

But still basics are missing: An Overwiew which panos and objects are used.
It needs a Treeview! Click on object (Pano or hotspot) and you have all properties or functions.

Remember Live Picture Reality Studio ?
Easy to use ! Structured overview !

About FPP:
Somebody should shout loud, maybe then Denis gets awake....

[Trausti Hraunfjord]

An Overwiew which panos and objects are used.
It needs a Treeview! Click on object (Pano or hotspot) and you have all properties or functions.

I like good ideas, and that one is good. How it can be done, will be up to my programmer to figure out.

As to Denis: He is working on the next big update, and there are a lot of new (never seen before) functionalities that will come with it. He prefers to publish a program that doesn't need continuous bug fixes and updates... and that I can promise you, is not an easy task. So between versions, there is deafening silence... He responds everyone who writes him, and that is good service... that he mostly remains quiet in forums and the blog... well, that's just how it is. We can wish for more info and interaction from him, but then again, it's better that he uses his time to work on the programming, than interacting in the forums... or nothing would be done.

When version 2.4 comes out, we will all be very happy... and after a while, people will want something more... That's just how we humans are... me being no different.

Another factor to take into account, is that when we bought FPP, we got our money's worth - and then some. The updates may be few and long between... but when those come at no additional cost, we should rather be glad and enjoy those when they come. Free bonus rounds.

[discocandy]

Aye to Tuddi.

As supermoderator I am also in frequent contact with Denis.
Not much about the big update but like Tudi is saying.
and I quote.
"And I don't like to launch not finished products"

end quote.

and it takes time.
almost all coding is needs to be redone..

[christophe]

Sometimes the forum wake up, it might mean something else ! ;)

I love FPP, .........as you do....!

Denis does his possible, and we will too...!

Peace, and long life to FPP !!

Best regards

Christophe

[Virtualguide]

I think that with FPP we can do almost everything.... When I left easypano tourweaver 2,5 years ago (almoast no support, very expensive sw + upgrade, features was nice at that time, but still LIMITED for me), I was amazed, what the others produced by immervision Pure Player (Java version - programmable API).
It was such confusing for me that I started to learn the API. It was very hard for me as I was everything but not programmer :-) But I decided to not be lazy and after some time found FPP = another code for learning... :-) But I am sure it was very valuable time - I have spent by studying this!

Bodensee: U must decide what U want: program which is able to do everything for U thanks to its GUI (with all of bugs etc. like easypano) or very valuable engine like FPP, but U must hovewer try to understand the API+ U have the forum with all this great people who are eager to advice U! Even some of them prepared some GUI (Icelander living in Peru), plugins (some of them for free!!!) - EVERYTHING JUST FOR U!!! :-) Just do not be lazy. But if U have not so much time or your time is too expensive, try to hire some of advanced FPP users in spite of criticising Denis work :-) I am glad to know that 2.4 will be soon here, but now I am very happy to have any FPP...
(and sorry for my english :-))

[Jochum]

Before buying this I checked the competition and Pano2VR was expensiver and I maybe didnt search enough but I couldnt find any example of panoramas out there with acceptable quality made with Pano2VR, and then also this software seemed "open" so new effects (plugins) could be easily added. I have then read here that Denis is perhaps planning a new version that works like an ordinairy program with a GUI but I really don't see why that should be necessary. But thats just me, could very well have wrong.

[Aifos]

2.4 will blow our minds!

[Trausti Hraunfjord]

It's so good that some people are ready to blow their minds because they don't have it yet. :)

[Astroman]

I wld ne great if there wld be a feature preview of the 2.4 version.
The features of the KrPano Player is getting better and better if i read about the new beta with for e.g. "KrPano Protect".
Denis wrote abt a new architecture of the player some month ago I hope that
will be outstanding cause I m thinking abt switching to KrPano Player.

[www.bodensee360.de]

First of all i want give me a name: Michael
"Bodensee" is only a lake where i live...

I want to say i dont want to blame the work of Denis or Trausti. When i bought FPP, i saw the possibilities that you can do with it and i was quite amazed.

The biggest problem is for me that we dont hear anything from Denis directly...i think it should be possible to put minimal info into the blog in 5-6 months (even when i'm stressed). Just some minimal info about what he is planning....i know he wants to say not too much because other Flash players producer can copy his ideas.

About the "next big thing": Its like a cloud - only rumors but nothing real or facts....even the people who are in frequent contact with Denis dont know what is planned or even that IS something planned and WHEN it is released.

If Denis is not interested anymore in FPP (too less income with it), he should thinking about open the sources.


my main critics are:

1. No outlook what will happen and when. Rumors dont count.

2. blog is useless -> Denis problem

3. Documentation lacks, missing topics --> could be done by commmunity.
Would save a lot of forum entries. How much topics i find for "getting the name of the current panorama" ? What about a wiki ?

4. three developers (Denis, Trausti, Tommy, in early days partick & zephir) doing all their own. If power would be contrentrated & coordinated, it would be better. for example: "where do i find a plugin which can...". In Pano2VR i find ALL information in one website / one forum.

FPP Resources:
1. FPP Blog
2. FPP Forum
3. Flashificator Forum
4. Panoralado Website (obsolte)
5. Tommys Plugin Page
6. FPP Google Groups

A beginner will not mention all that resources, he thinks this or that is not possible.
This is making FPP weak as "complete" solution.



In my first post i talked about Live Picture Reality Studio. For people who doesnt know the programm: It was a program which had almost the functionality as FPP in 2001 (!). You could also add object movies with alpha channel into the panorama (drag & drop). And also Flashpix (comparable with the hiRes gigapan images). I loved the programm very much. Biggest problem was that the multimedia content was only seen with ActiveX Plugin (IE) Browsers. In that case, the program had no real chance to grow.
So it died 2 years ago.


FPP is also a very nice idea, but i fear that FPP will go the same way (I hope not)



Some answers:
@Virtualguide: no critic at FPP itself, but critic for the "PR and propaganda" from Denis. Im quite happy with FPP, but if i hear about new versions and nothing happens -> this making me mad. Im having a quite big project with Siemens and waited (and hoped) for new & easier solutions. And i should offer a stable solution for one of the biggest Hotel ower in the world. And so i sit between 2 Chairs: Waiting for new or trying with the exisiting. if Im using the existing and the new FPP with new archtecture is coming out, my work could be obsolte.

@Jochum: I still prefer FPP. But i want to have it more effective and innovative. Pricing is not so relevant


Please forgive me my strong words, they should be only critic and no affront


Cheers


Michael

[discocandy]

I have been in contact with Denis for the last 2 day's about this subject and spam...
I quote a few things he said.


I know, it's not good for business to keep quiet,
but to be true it's not very interesting for me to make people arose all the time with some marketing actions or something.
It starts as a hobby for me and it is still a hobby for now.
I think like this: when I will get a good product, I will give it to people.
I don't like to launch not finished products.

that is what I want to tell. There is more but I'll keep that private.
I know about a few features that will be in .
I like it very much and takes it to a next level.

Really Michael.
those others did not need to build their own plugin page? If asked we would have made a special section for it.

The blog is something I think you are right about. I would love to handle the blog and use it for more than just some info on FPP. but also for special projects seen on the forum(panodigg like)
I would love to open up a topic with specific pieces of coding how to do some stuff.

filed by the community.

just point me out some ideas and I'll try to do it.

[Dalileis]

2.4 will blow our minds!

Yepp.

The Russian Bear is only sleeping. But even though heґs sleeping, he is still THE BEAR.

Denis The VR Menace started it all. And to this very day FPP kills every other similar application out there. Those that think otherwise just have not looked inside the FPP power deeply enough. This one is a WROOM WROOOOOOMMMM.... And still leading the game. With krpano as the nearest challenger. Still, I have faith in Denis and am choosing to stay with FPP.

[discocandy]

Aye to that!

[Shanti]

one little thing bugs me, the fact that he said this is just a hobby for him... nothing wrong there, maybe we all started as a hobby and for some it is no longer a hobby but part of their business, like Michael, having such big clients depending on a "hobby" is not really acceptable. sure we paid and got our money worth from version 1, but 1 update in a year? and just to fix a mac problem...? no entry on the blog at all? and I think that this project being a hobby for him is not really good to hear, since this means any updates (if any) will come whenever he feels like... Or just kill it altogether. I think a hobby is something you do for fun and not to make money.

Denis is basically saying this is bad PR but he does not care what we think since this is a hobby...hmmm


Krpano is really gaining ground, I have paid for Krpano, and I have switched, I am VERY happy with krpano, sure it does not have a lot of plugins, but most of the things that FPP requires plugins are already enabled by default on kpano.

But I think its safe to say that Krpano will have 2 or 3 new releases before 2.4 comes out, and one of them hopefully with the distorting hotspots (which I personally don't care about :) ) bu a lot of people seam to say that FPP is superior just for this.

Don't take this wrong, I think FPP is as capable as Krpano, I like both, but I also like to know that the viewer I choose is not going to die after I launch a big project.

Denis believe what you will, but marketing is king... just ask Apple :) I don't think posting a "hang in there, I am still alive and working" on the blog or forum will take you more than 30 seconds out of your time.

anyways, hopefully 2.4 will come out and be VERY good, and make me feel like an idiot for posting this but otherwise Denis PR is really hurting FPP.

just my 2 cents :)


Shanti

[Jochum]

Krpano... dont know but I see wavy lines in the examples, if inzoomed every time I pan something comes up in the middle, crappy stitched examples though you can't blame krpano fцr that, and pressing back-button om the mouse it spins like crazy, slightly bad overall feeling and expensiver so they have to come with better if I should convert.
The most impressing sites that takes panoramatours to the limit I have yet seen (haven't seem them all though) FPP is used. Just my 2 cents. :)

[Shanti]

never had any of those problems you mention, maybe you have Flash 9 player?

and what are those sites you mention?

360cities switched to krpano


and that thing that comes in the middle is because you are seeing a multiresolution panorama (think google street, zoomify, gigapan), something than FPP does not support, thats also the reaso why autopano giga uses krpano.

but, my post was not to bash any of the players, like I said, I like both but I like to also know that whichever I choose will not go dead after.

[Jochum]

Flash version 10. I looked at krpanos own site. Not impressed. Okey so that was an improvement, multiresolution, nothing I liked, just annoying. And I have a fast connection, what do they do who don't have?
But you are free to like it, I didn't see anything that was better than this. :)

[Shanti]

Well the fact that you just "looked" seems to be the reason :)

I have tried both on my own panos, and I can barely see any diference, if any I would say krpano is faster but not much to be considered better.

multiresolution is something you can enable or disable, and multiresolution panos are a VERY good thing, you can zoom and see some details, not saying that every pano needs to be in multiresolution, but use it on a proper pano and you will see why its good :)

and you don't seem to get the point, it only loads the parts that NEED to be loaded, think of Google Maps, you can also see that that "weird thing" in the middle CAN be disabled if you don't like it.

that's why it loads when you zoom.


here is an example

http://photoartkalmar.com/Photoart%20Kalmar%20high%20res/Gigapixel/Piaristenkircheflash.html

zoom all the way on the picture of the virgin Mary, in fact zoom all the way on ANY part of the photo.

and here is another example.

http://dorin.europhoto.ro/dxn_pano/PtaUnirii/pano.html

[Jochum]

Of course you can like it how much you want but I have no use of multiresolution, I can't or don't want do do them and don't expect people to wait that long for download and I think only it was annoying, if I wanted I could do mine FPP even more sharper but around 1MB seems reasonable and I think it is much better to zoom in to interesting parts of picture with hotspots showing a image (though there have I not come yet since I'm new to this).
If they want to sell more of theirs product it is up to them to show some good example, they don't and I am happy with the quality of FPP so I have no reasons to convert. I'm glad you have but I am not you.

[christophe]

Hi Guys !

You probably could stop quarrelling.
Everyone is free to use whatever he wants to use.
This place is made for FPP, and maybe private message seems to be made for this kind of conversation.

I don't want to play the "Magistrate"............just wish you the peace ;)

Regards

Christophe

[Jochum]

Yapp, everyone has right to think and buy what they want, I only told why I'm happy and I am finished, doesn't have shares in FPP... :)

[discocandy]

I don't want to play the "Magistrate"............just wish you the peace ;)

Regards

Christophe

Well I will, thnx Christophe for helping here.. good words :)

like Denis himself I do not want to see an FPP vs KRpano here.

So I want to put a hold on it while it is still a normal topic and before it starts to be a flamewar.
I allow you guys to give details on differences in different players.
I will NOT allow people to say a program s***s.

While the same goes for other players like pureplayer and pano2vr.
All have structures I like and dislike...

I'll keep a close eye.;)

[Trausti Hraunfjord]

Taking FPP out of hobby status and into full time job for Denis would be great!

.... only question is: Who is going to pay him the full time wages? Surely the 20 or so € he gets for every copy (after transaction cost, taxes, transfer fees) won't keep him alive for very long.

He has done a fantastic job, and I for one am very happy with the myriad of options FPP offers. Of course one can go for a "competing" product (http://easypano.com/store-tourweaver.html) that only costs €600 more... and which has only around 20% of the FPP functionality... but there one would clearly have a full time job version. Even if FPP and Flashificator were bought together, it would be €545 cheaper than that "competing" product.

Patience is a virtue... I'm not a very patient man, but in the case of FPP, I am fully confident that it's better than anything else on every front... and it's getting better.

[Shanti]

my gosh you guys are over protective, I don't recall EVER saying that ANY other software was better than any other, I am not even talking about easy pano its wayyyy to expensive to even consider it on this discusion.

I think both Krpano and FPP have their pros and cons whats so bad about that?

and tuddi, do you ever go to your clients and say, " hey i got this project that I can sell to you 20 bucks each, but its just a hobby for me and it will always be" I wonder how many SERIOUS clients are going to say YAY!!!

I never said FPP should be a full time job, but it stoped being a Hobby when he charged for it, otherwise why not j'ust give it away and have a donate button ? Panosalado could be considered a hobby, since its FREE and open source, FPP is a commercial software in my books, I bet you have a few projects of your own, heck I've seen you post things about flashificator when it stops, or when you run into problems, and I am sure flashificator is not your full time job, look at it this way, a 30 second post everyonce a blue moon could at least keep your clients if noy happy up to date.

I was one of the first to buy FPP when it was released and I still think its one of the best WAY over pano2vr and Easypano, but I think Krpano is a SERIOUS competitor, and Denis considering this just a hobby is just hurting his own software.

I still use FPP for projects that require it, but that does't mean I won't use anything else if it fits better.

and you guys can close this thread if it feels like a threat, but I am just posting my opinions, never once have I said FPP is worse nor better than Krpano, or viceversa.

:)

[Trausti Hraunfjord]

No worries my friend :) I am not poking a stick at you or the mentioned software(s). When we have need for something that one can't do, we use something that can do it, so I have no objections to you or anyone else switching between products. It's the sensible thing to do!

As to the word "hobby" .... it can come down to what meaning one puts into it when it is said. It can mean "I enjoy doing my work so much, that it feels like hobby" it can also mean that one only does it in one's limited free time. I am in no position to determine what meaning has been put into the word by Denis. (not into mind reading you know :) )

Panorama photography caught my interest by the balls, and it was truly my hobby... still to this day I enjoy it as a hobby, even when working with it professionally, and hopefully I will continue to feel that way about it. Once a hobby becomes "work"... it doesn't give the same free-spirited enjoyment. It becomes a heavy load to carry.

I think that explains ... at least MY view on "hobby"... and the attached feelings. Maybe Denis has the same view... maybe not.

And no... I am not being over protective... just throwing in my opinion. EP is a valid example... even though it is way out of the price range we have for KR and FPP. It is a product used by professionals around the world, and it does have regular (?) updates and such. And speaking from a professional point of view, a program that costs €639.95 is, and should be a sound investment. A good camera is in the price range of $2000-6000, then there is all the extra equipment one needs (tripod, pano-head, carrying bags, leveller etc)... not to forget the stitching and photo editing software and computer equipment (+ operating system)... and a laptop for taking around to show possible clients and current clients one's works. It all adds up... and expecting the software part to be as cheap as FPP is of course not realistic. When I purchased Realviz stitcher, it was over $800 ... and even though I thought it was expensive, it was a needed tool for my works (fortunately I was directed to PTGui later on).

FPP is not dead in development... it's just lacking public announcements on the progress. I understand why... been there myself on the opposite side... I always expected the first release to be just around the corner... only to make a complete fool out of myself... and months went by... it is pretty much impossible to predict a launch date before the whole thing is already done, and the "only" thing needed is testing and bug fixes. Of course it would be great to have a list over future features... but that again could give a backslash, by having competing software products to come out with the same things ... even faster than FPP. So keeping the cards close to his body, is understandable... regardless of how badly it may feel for us.

All written in good spirit, no hard feelings... just (as you) expressing my thoughts in writing.

[Shanti]

Yeah I hear you on camera prices and laptops and stuff like that, but I bet that if we all could get a GOOD lens for under 100 dlls we all would :P same goes for easypano, why would I ever spend 600+ dlls for something that FPP or krpano can do (in my opinion MUCH better) I love FPP and krpano, it gives me the freedom to do something different for every client since
I am used to coding, I code for a living (mainly PHP now) so I am comfortable doing all the XML.

I've never tried Flashificator but a friend of mine bought it from you and he loves it, so I am pretty sure it must be cool :)


no hard feelings :-P

[unouno]

I also have a problem with service:

I sent last November an email to Dennis asking for the invitation for the private google group to upgrade the pano.swf file and he never responded, I repeated the email in December with the copy of invoice and the copy of the receipt and I'm still waiting for the invitation.

What I need to do to Receive the invitation and download the new pano.swf (2.13)?

Thanks for your help

[Trausti Hraunfjord]

unouno, I have sent you a private message.

[Virtualguide]

So, what the price would we accept for FPP in case Denis would take it not just as a hobby but like a job (it means more serious approach, better support, regular upgrades (if needed), maybe some group of FPP beta-testers would be nice also...)?

Maybe Denis does not want to go this way at all... but if we could offer him some interesting idea, maybe he would change his opinion :-)

If FPP now costs 40Ђ, I would offer for example 80Ђ + 40Ђ for every new upgrade like 2.4 (new features etc...)
If I compare - which SW is more important for me: ptgui or FPP? I say FPP! I would put the price little below the krpano pricing but put something like ptgui has - for 1,5 years U have free upgrades, then U must pay again... This model would be maybe more inspirating for Denis ...

Maybe we could really discuss this and give him our offer. I think - if it would be not acceptable for him, - still he would be happy of FPP community - that we do not want just do take from him but to give (pay fo the service)
:-)

[Trausti Hraunfjord]

I fully agree that when a major update (rewriting of everything) is done, we should be able to show our appreciation and pay for it again. After all it will be a new and better tool than the one we already have.

It is standard procedure for every other software provider, so it wouldn't be unexpected or unfair in any way. The price of €40 for a tool used for professional works isn't anything at all... not even for me, and I live in a 3rd world country! So I would absolutely be ok with paying for major upgrades.

One may think that I am biased... and probably I am... since I have the intention of charging again for the next generation of FFC... whenever it will be ready. It's because it's a complete rewriting of everything, and I have to pay my programmer(s) for doing the job. The current version has sold exactly 247 copies until now, and is FAR from having paid all the costs... and I don't think I should be expected to provide it at loss forever :) At least I have to try and make ends meet.

Anyways; I second your suggestion Igor, and hopefully others will do as well. It will be in all of our interest at the end of the day.

[Virtualguide]

No other opinions?

I have one more idea:
The part of the money (for example 5€ from each FPP purchase) could be spend to maintain this forum by the persons like discocandy and produce some manual + give examples, problems&solutions together etc.

[izoneguy]

I have gotten so use to writing up the xml code that the other programs I have looked at are clunky & constraining. I do like some programs that can make a ,swf file. I keep seeing that Denis is working on the next version that will
make tours self-contained. I would be willing to "start over" and pay for the next gen of "Flash Panoramas". Perhaps a "loyal customer" discount can be applied.

[birdseye]

A good idea, Igor. I wouldn't have any problem with repaying for every major update for such a fantastic product.

[discocandy]

No other opinions?

I have one more idea:
The part of the money (for example 5Ђ from each FPP purchase) could be spend to maintain this forum by the persons like discodandy and produce some manual + give examples, problems&solutions together etc.

Defentatly NO! No money for me.
I am total independend and looking into all sort of pano programs,
I want to be totaly independed for that, and say whatever I want about any of those programs, With money involved for me is not a good thing

About tutorials.
I already said that a couple of times but then it became silent.
What I need are pieces of coding links to tutorials.
I personally want all info from flashpanos here becasue they are deleting stuff now it seems.
If any info is posted on other forums with that. like the panotools forum I want it here.:cool:

[Virtualguide]

Defentatly NO! No money for me.
I am total independend and looking into all sort of pano programs,
I want to be totaly independed for that, and say whatever I want about any of those programs, With money involved for me is not a good thing


I was just thinking this way:
If somebody should spend a lot of time to take care of the forum and helping other FPP users while he could spend the same time on his own projects, why not to pay something?
But if somebody would be able to do such service as a hobby for free, it would be nice:-) Hovewer till now, it could be done so, but apparently none of us had so much time - because of that I think it should be paid. Normally, the companies have employee to do such a work, but Denis has not so much time, I think he should have somebody who could help him (for some financial consideration)...
;)

[www.bodensee360.de]

About tutorials.
I already said that a couple of times but then it became silent.
What I need are pieces of coding links to tutorials.

-> What about a "How to..." section here in the forum ?
We can copy the answers from the normal threads to this section.
Should be the easiest way...

for example the tutorial how to do a Navigation (Visit Rosario) or the complete Stuff of AllSaints.



-> for the normal Documentation of Denis i think its the best way to use a wiki with several authors.

I think it could be better structured - i would seperate all properties into an new document or section - instead of properties i would show detailed & explained examples -and i would embed all plugins that are made in the Blog

Should be a lot of work...but with several writers...
just an idea..

[HansNyberg]

There is a reason why we do not have any detailed published tutorials.
I have thought of offering some simple templates and make a simple tutorial for them but the problem is that it can not be done without revealing the secrets about the structure of FPP and when you know how it is built anyone can collect the necessary files for publishing Flashpanoramas from any site using FPP.
This is of course also the reason why the Tutorial with all parameters is only available in the package.

You need to have a domain restriction if you publish all this info, Denis does not want to complicate the way FPP is sold which I can fully understand and I also understand that the major resistance to "the other viewers" is the domain restriction.

Hans

[discocandy]

Normally, the companies have employee to do such a work, ;)

Hehe reminds me of pureplayer forum.
I was asked to be a moderator there to.. because the company did not find the time (finance) to use sombody internal.
Without my agreement they made me moderator there.. but can not do anything.. Had to ask everything to the admin and he did not replied my questions......:rolleyes:

On the other hand I have some ideas on making a few more people moderator.
I'll ask denis about that. and after that I'll e-mail the persons I have in mind.

@Hans, I totally agree.
but snippets of xml conding how to do stuff is not organised at all.
nippets are all around. and on different forums,
and no secret.
That needs to be structured.

[Virtualguide]

Hehe reminds me of pureplayer forum.
I was asked to be a moderator there to.. because the company did not find the time (finance) to use sombody internal.
Without my agreement they made me moderator there.. but can not do anything.. Had to ask everything to the admin and he did not replied my questions......:rolleyes:
:D
I remember there was a lot of critics on immervision because of practically no support...

Still, I had ordinary sw on my mind, like photoshop plugins, hdr software, stitchers etc. I found it very often, that there is some employee, who cares of U...

On the other hand I have some ideas on making a few more people moderator.
I'll ask denis about that. and after that I'll e-mail the persons I have in mind.
Yes Discocandy - do it! It would be very very practical...

@Hans, I totally agree.
but snippets of xml conding how to do stuff is not organised at all.
nippets are all around. and on different forums,
and no secret.
That needs to be structured.
Thanx friends that U are willing to put the time in this all!

[nmendes]

I have been in contact with Denis for the last 2 day's about this subject and spam...
I quote a few things he said.




that is what I want to tell. There is more but I'll keep that private.
I know about a few features that will be in .
I like it very much and takes it to a next level.

Really Michael.
those others did not need to build their own plugin page? If asked we would have made a special section for it.

The blog is something I think you are right about. I would love to handle the blog and use it for more than just some info on FPP. but also for special projects seen on the forum(panodigg like)
I would love to open up a topic with specific pieces of coding how to do some stuff.

filed by the community.

just point me out some ideas and I'll try to do it.
Fair comment. But let's just hope this is not another "Chinese Democracy" ;)

[Shanti]

There is a reason why we do not have any detailed published tutorials.
I have thought of offering some simple templates and make a simple tutorial for them but the problem is that it can not be done without revealing the secrets about the structure of FPP and when you know how it is built anyone can collect the necessary files for publishing Flashpanoramas from any site using FPP.
This is of course also the reason why the Tutorial with all parameters is only available in the package.

You need to have a domain restriction if you publish all this info, Denis does not want to complicate the way FPP is sold which I can fully understand and I also understand that the major resistance to "the other viewers" is the domain restriction.

Hans

anyone with a fair ammount ok knowledge and Firebug+YSlow can get the SWF and everything involved on how FPP works, there is no secret that FPP has no security over this, and anything that can be accesed by the browser can and will be accesed by the user, unles of course version 2.4 has a "new" feature for this, like Krprotect :)

So I really don't think this is the problem on the lack of documentation+tutorials, and IF this is the reason for this, isn't the Google group paying members only? why not post them there?

[www.bodensee360.de]

There is a reason why we do not have any detailed published tutorials.
I have thought of offering some simple templates and make a simple tutorial for them but the problem is that it can not be done without revealing the secrets about the structure of FPP and when you know how it is built anyone can collect the necessary files for publishing Flashpanoramas from any site using FPP.
This is of course also the reason why the Tutorial with all parameters is only available in the package.

You need to have a domain restriction if you publish all this info, Denis does not want to complicate the way FPP is sold which I can fully understand and I also understand that the major resistance to "the other viewers" is the domain restriction.

Hans




I do not understand why there isnt a security function in pano.swf
If there would be one, everything else would be no problem.
Detailed tutorials, a "free" version to learn local....

Just a basic Idea:

1. licenced Users of FPP entering their URL's/IP's (of Websites displaying FPP panos) into a database at flashpanoramas.com

2. pano.swf "phones home" everytime a pano is showed in the browser....

3. pano.swf looks into a database: "is the domain/IP allowed (licenced) to show ?"
if yes, Panorama will displayed. If not, Panorama will NOT displayed.

If no "home call" is possible (No internet/http - Like in intranets or CD-Roms), pano will be shown.
(Or a special version of pano.swf for that cases)


yes, recompiling is always possible, but ordinary users cant do that.
Programmers with skills can do that with every published version, so the argument with "keeping the secret" is....mmhhh....
if the bad guys wont do that with "pre-released" version, the will do it with the released version.

I think restrictions are the better way than this....

Now registered (paying) users need a lot more time to get all documents, plugins, snippets ...the learning and searching time is high!
For beginners absolute frustrating....how many people have you all seen here once in the forum and then never again?

"Activating" a url or registering a product would need less time....and everybody who likes the product will understand that.


Michael

[Shanti]

why phone home? I mean its a great idea, but, since its an "unlimited" domain license, it would be a hassle for Denis to update what domains are valid and what domains are not.

Denis should take the example of Krpano with Krprotect, it encrypts the domains you want to use into the swf and it works perfectly :)

but we established that's not the problem, the lack of security should not be an excuse for the lack of documentation, Denis is just having to much Vodka ;)

[www.bodensee360.de]

"it would be a hassle for Denis to update what domains are valid and what domains are not"

--> would be eliminated by

1. licenced Users of FPP entering their URL's/IP's (of Websites displaying FPP panos) into a database at flashpanoramas.com

User will update their valid domains by themselves.
(Login in Webpage with user/pw, typing in domains, ready!)

Comparable to Google Maps API = Generate key for every IP/URL


I didnt look deep into kprotect, sure also a solution...
but software solutions could also being cracked ;-)

[Trausti Hraunfjord]

anyone can collect the necessary files

Next version (2.4) is built in a way that eliminates the possibility of that... making the software safe from theft.

How I know? Because my programmers were exploring possibilities for different encryptions and "one file output" (contrary to all the different files we have now in the output). I contacted Denis and asked about the possibility of making a change in pano.swf, which would enable FFC to create a single file output. He replied and said that 2.4 would be made with that method.

[christophe]

Wouaouh ! it will be a very good thing.

Trausti, Is there a place where all the 2.4 updates are written ?

I didn't researchs.... just ask to know if i have to :)

Thank you

Regards

Christophe

[Trausti Hraunfjord]

No. Only bits and pieces of what will come has been posted by individual users that have been in contact with Denis. Of course... when it's not been publically announced by Denis, anything and everything could change when 2.4 finally comes out.

[Astroman]

Yippie yeah.
I can smell it - 2.4 is not far away.
:)